tv MSNBC Live With Kate Snow MSNBC December 9, 2015 12:00pm-2:01pm PST
. and the next great idea could be yours. good afternoon, everyone. i'm kate snow. we begin this hour with a nbc news exclusive investigation on a day where lawmakers are all discussing and debating how to defeat isis and seems like everybody in the political arena sounding off about who should be allowed in this country. richard engel and his team has v a brand new report of how easy and relatively inexpensive it is to buy a real american passport overseas. richard is here with more. >> so, we went to athens, greece, and you know greece is at the center of this migrant and refugee crisis. >> sure. >> with thousands and thousands of people arriving from the
middle east through turkey into greece every day. and then the question is, how do they get on and how do they move on out of greece? there is an enormous market in greece right now for forged documents, forged passports including american passports and they're not hard to find. and mostly they're stolen passports, stolen american passports, european passports that forgers doctor. change the date and we spoke to a forger in jail, admits to being part of this forgery ring and says that if he wants to he can get 30, 40, 50 american passports. effectively as many as you need. >> was it something like $5,000? >> less than that. >> less than that? >> the way it works is that he as the forger smuggler document salesman, because you don't just
buy the document, you actually get a package deal. you go in. you -- if you're the person who wants to buy the document, say i want a travel document that i can use. they will sell you that document with your photograph in it and then give you plane or train tickets and facilitation fees so there are people along the way who will help move you to point "a" to point "b" and this story, this particular forger, was caught on camera in a sting operation where an agent from homeland security went over there, posing as an isis buyer telling the -- telling this person supplying the documents i'm with isis. and i want to buy these passports. no problem. here are photographs, i'm from isis, will you put the photographs in the passport? no problem. >> this is terrifying. >> it's not good. now, these passports may not have gotten through american
security because they change the photograph, they can change the name, but the bar code is an issue. an alert. >> right. >> customs officer might not have passed the scan -- >> these are -- we're talking about real legitimate passports. not frauds. not fakes. >> that are doctored. >> doctored to put -- >> they're good. they're good enough. it's not a simple matter of peeling back the lam nant and sticking a photograph. printed on the card. these are sophisticated. and if you're not that familiar with handling a passport, and if you land in a small airport in latin america or -- they look for weaknesses. landing where they don't handle a lot of american passports every day -- >> do we have a sense of your investigation how many people have tried to use one of these passports or gotten through american security with a passport like this? >> gotten through, no. >> no idea. >> i do not know.
this is a particular sting operation and interesting so american agents went overseas, posing as buyers for isis and got four passports in this case and the lawyer for the -- for this accused -- who he admits that he was involved in the forgery business and says he is not an isis member or a terrorist. facing extradition to the united states. the lawyer said there are many, many, many other people just like him. >> and this is all happening obviously, richard, in the context of donald trump and the political discussion, the debate we have been having for 48 hours about the proposal to ban muslimings entering the united states. to me it raises the question, if someone can buy an american passport, would asking them if they're muslim at the border even matter? >> no, no. going to that length to create a new identity for themselves, are they going to tell you, yes, i'm muslim or an isis member? that's -- that's from a security
point of view, that doesn't mean anything. they will be coming in on an american passport. or coming in to another country with an american passport and then perhaps using that to create a new identity. it's not always that simple. sometimes you take the passport. you use that to get from one board tore the next and then -- >> you throw it away? >> no, no. they do actually, the forgers, they want it back. so you leave a deposit and then you mail it back to the people who create -- >> recycle it? >> yes. >> where do they get -- did he tell you -- >> the name of the street, yes. and he gave me the name of his partner. there's a particular black market. in athens, not trying to make athens the worse place in the world. >> it's a business. making money. >> lots of it. they have this issue because all of the refugees and migrants are showing up in athens looking to travel on. so there's a glut. they get them primarily stolen passports so they're stolen
passports from hotels, beaches, when people get their handbag stolen. >> right. >> these passports go some place and not just stolen in dwrees greece. stolen in other places. >> funneled in to greece. >> not that expensive. you get the raw passport for 0 3030 to 500 euros. >> that's how much in dollars? >> about the same. >> $700 to $800. $450 for a good one. depends on the expiration date, what they're looking for. the condition of the passport. but that range. and then it costs another couple thousand to do the actual changing to put your names and -- >> wow. >> information. >> i could sit here all day and talk to you about this. you'll be much more reporting on this on "nbc nightly news" and find on your nbc station. richard, thank you so much.
>> good to talk to you. >> you, too. we'll go to chicago now. a lot of protests under way in that city at this hour. i believe it's outside of the department store. i want to go to john yang following this. what are we seeing in chicago? >> protesters, kate, marching through the loop, through downtown chicago. right now, the shot -- i'm sorry. i don't have return up but i can see the shot from our network camera. this is on the backside of the thompson state office building on lake street on the northern edge of the loop. they have been marching around the loop area. it's been mostly peaceful. there were a couple of tense moments early on. a couple of protesters after some sort of altercation were put into a police van and they were released about ten minutes later. not taken into custody. not arrested. they also tried to get into the chicago board of trade. the chicago board of options
exchange to try to disrupt business there. they were kept out. a couple did get in to the macy's downtown. older folks may remember that as the marshall field in downtown chicago. so far, peaceful. about -- in the numbering in the hundreds, marching around chicago. this, of course, comes after mayor rahm emanuel spoke to the city council. he took full responsibility after a couple of weeks of seeming to deflect blame for when's going on with the police department. took full responsibility for the situation, apologized for what happened in the investigation of the laquan mcdonald shooting and for the shooting itself and pledged the move forward, pledged to change things and not only within the police department but in terms of processes and training and procedures, but also, trying to break the code of silence among
the police. we saw just last week they released the police reports of the laquan mcdonald incident from the officers on the scene. all of those reports backing the officer and directly contradicted by the videotape that was released earlier. but as i say, this march through downtown washington really showing the anger that's been festering and building up and reaching the boiling point with the release of the laquan mcdonald tape. >> right. downtown chicago, right? >> festering. downtown chicago. going through the northern part of the loop. >> for people who aren't familiar, that's the sort of central business area. >> exactly. >> of chicago. >> the financial district, state street. a lot of shopping. south of the sort of the magnificent mile, the stretch of michigan avenue where the high-end shops are. the police -- some of the protesters were talking about
getting up to the magnificent mile to try to disrupt shopping again as they did on black friday but the police have been ma movneuvering them first sout. >> john, i don't know if you can see what we're airing on msnbc but these are live pictures from chicago. it's a pretty big crowd. was this a preplanned protest or did this come out of rahm emanuel apologizing earlier today and, you know, speaking again about the videotapes and the incidents of late? >> this was preplanned. i think -- i should say that the plans were this march were announced this morning. after we knew that the mayor was going to address the city council. some of them -- some of the black lives matter protesters tried to get into the chamber while the mayor was speaking but they were kept outside. rather loud and raucous
gathering of protesters outside the council chamber but this was planned. >> and, john, i noticed one of the protesters we saw had a shirt that said rahm failed us. i know there's been a lot of pressure on the mayor. there have been those who protested and called for resignation. is that what these protesters are demanding? do you have a sense for what they want to come out of the protest? >> that's one of the things they want. after the mayor fired the police superintendent, the chant was one down, two to go. the mayor and the prosecutor anita alvarez. that's one thing they're calling for. also calling for a special prosecutor to replace anita alvar alvarez. the state's attorney for cook county. in investigating these cases. they feel that they can't trust her. she said that that's not going to happen and also getting a special prosecutor is a difficult task. they're also calls -- there's sort of a number of groups gathered here.
i have heard calls about just the -- what they say the culture of corruption in the city council and in the city government of chicago, questions about city contracting but i think that the main thing that has galvanized this protest is the ongoing outrage of mcdonald, the oversight of the chicago police department, anger over rahm emanuel and county attorney anita alvarez. >> john yang in chicago, watching the protests right now, 2:12 in the afternoon chicago time downtown chicago. we'll keep an eye on this. ask you to stand by if you could and come back to you seeing more developments this afternoon. thanks so much. we want to turn to the other big story today, two big hearings on capitol hill. we showed you -- we mentioned defense secretary ash carter being grilled by members of the senate armed services committee about the u.s. fight against
isis. well, the fbi director james comey was also on capitol hill today testifying before a different senate committee, senate judiciary, talking about the san bernardino investigation. i want to go to a senator that serves on both of the senate committees, senator mike lee, republican of utah joins us now. senator lee, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> you i know were in the hearing earlier today with ash carter. the defense secretary. i want to play an exchange that you had with the defense secretary and then talk about that. >> mr. secretary, can you explain to us how specifically we're vetting these groups, how we decide ought to be the beneficiary of this program? >> it is their leader that is are vetted. rather than down to the individual level. general, maybe you would like to say something about the vetting process in general? >> we have in the case of the syrian arab coalition convinced
leaders to come to the syrian side of the border. we have vetted them through databases. >> that is an exchange about groups that the u.s. is trying to equip on the ground. satisfied with the secretary of defense's answers today? >> well, it was interesting. it was good to have the exchange. i still don't feel like i have a full plate of information on this situation. my concern all along since this began two years ago to provide equipment for people,lettal equipment to end up being used against us and american interests. and i want to make sure that we're providing this equipment in such a way that guarantees it's used a way we like at the end of the day. >> secretary carter said the u.s. is building in his words momentum against isis. do you agree? >> in some respects, i think that's true. it is true that we have contained the amount of land that they have got. they're under control of less total land mass right now than
they have been in the past. that said, think oar moving forward. they're continuing to wreck havoc on the world and continuing to make threats not only to the american people but to people throughout europe and elsewhere that continue to be of great concern to us and we have got to step up our efforts to stop isis before they get to us, do more harm to us. >> were you able to hear richard engel's reporting at the top of the hour? >> no, no. >> he was reporting about an investigation and more of it on "nbc nightly news" tonight and showing how easy it is to buy a legitimate u.s. passport in greece and talked to a forfeiter in jail now for selling them and raises big questions about whether people might be able to enter the country in that way. do you have concerns about that? >> yes, absolutely. look. as prevalent as forged and stolen documents or modified
stolen documents are in the world today, we have to be vigilant about who let in the country and somebody that presents with a u.s. passport might be who they say they are, using that passport to come in and harm us, so yeah, that's another yet reason to be concerned. >> i want to ask you about your republican colleague donald trump. and what he's been talking about. yesterday, i know you're a member of the lds church in utah. yesterday your church posted a statement from the church founder defending religious statement for all faiths reflecting the position on the national conversation about protecting the rights of people to be here. and worship as they choose. do you agree with your church in terms of religious freedom and essentially opposing donald trump's proposition that we ban all muslims? >> absolutely. as a lifelong member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints, i know what it means
to be a religious minority. my own people, ancestors, subject to an extermination order in the 1930s by the govern forof the state of missouri. i don't want to return to those days, to a time of imposing religious tests. when someone's ability to live here, to thrive here, to worship as they please here is dependent on what their religious beliefs are. yeah. i stand behind my church's statement. >> lastly, with such a busy day on capitol hill, sir, can i ask you about the other hearing with the fbi director? you're on that committee, as well. at that hearing we learned about san bernardino and the investigation there that the two shooters apparently were radicalized much earlier than we once thought. did you take anything out of mr. comey's conversation with you today? >> yes, i did. i enjoyed visiting with him. i asked mr. comey about the bill that i introduced that i sponsored in the senate, the usa
freedom act and said this is not impair or impeded any way, our ability to protect ourselves against an attack like this or follow up on it. this is something that we needed far listening time. something that the constitution requires and i talk about at length in "our lost constitution" and outline the connection of the bipartisan constitutional issue rooted in the 4th amendment and eliminate the bulk meta data information collection we got rid of. >> senator, mike lee, thank you so much for being with us. appreciate it. >> thank you. we'll keep an eye on chicago this hour. we'll have more after the break on grow progress tests there calling for mayor emanuel to resign. [meow mix jingle slowly and quietly plucks] right on cue. [cat meows] ♪meow, meow, meow, meow... it's more than just a meal, it's meow mix mealtime. with great taste and 100% complete nutrition, it's the only one cats ask for by name.
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we want to get back to that breaking news out of the chicago. you are looking on the left side of the screen at live pictures of downtown chicago. that's the loop around the downtown area. joining me now, nbc's john yang. protests breaking out in chicago. john, as we have been saying in light of everything happening in that city, just the other day department of justice calling for federal investigation into the city's police department. >> that's right. this is the picture, the corner of michigan and randolph. for people who may know chicago, that is the northern edge of millennium park that big park where the big -- >> the big sculpture. >> exactly. that's that area and protesters moving toward michigan avenue and the police taken a stand at michigan. they've blocked the access to michigan avenue and a little bit -- little time ago i saw
some people turning around, some of the protesters turning around heading back west on randolph toward strait street. another thing to point out and as i look at the crowd and listening to katie kim of our nbc station wmaq on the scene reporting, this is a very young crowd compared to the protests we have seen in the past. on black friday, for instance, the protest march through the shopping district led by jesse jackson, two members of congress, bobby rush and danny davis. these are a lot of high school students. katie kim talked to some students who said they walked out of class at a nearby high school. a number of people to join this protest. they have been marching through downtown chicago through the loop area. it's been mostly peaceful. just now at this sort of standoff as they try to get on to michigan avenue and the
police try to prevent them, katie is reporting that the little bit of scuffling, a water bottle fly through the air toward the police. so far, no reports of any any arrests or people being taken away early on. anthony ponce of wmaq reported at least one person put in a police van. that person released about ten minutes later. the police throughout all of this have been -- say their orders to give the protesters room, to give them room to breathe as they say. to let them exercise their 1st amendment rights, but also draw the line at any law breaking. so far, we have seen that today. at macy's, there were some people who tried to get in. they were blocked by police but no arrests there that we were able to see. kate? >> john, just the other day we were on this broadcast in the
afternoon we were listening to mayor rahm emanuel give a lengthy press conference and he was again and again saying he's here to stay, not going anywhere, the city will reform the police department and welcomed the department of justice investigation into the police force. is there any sense today just a couple of days later that that momentum shifted at all or rahm emanuel would consider resigning his position? >> i don't think so. i think that he is talking about -- i mean, his address to the city council today, he talked about not only owning the problem but owning the solution to the problem. or what he believes can be the solution to the problem. remember, he was just re-elected earlier this year so he still has about three years to run. as he said asked about this at a politico event, an event sponsored by organization
politico. he said we have a process, it's called a election. he feels he was elected by the people of chicago earlier this year and serve out the full term and make the judgment at the end of the term. a caution is there's a justice department probe going on. one of the things the protesters calling for is that probe to go beyond a broad inquiry of the chicago police department and how the police department and how the investigators handled the mcdonald case, the delay of the release of the videotape, dash cam video. the fact that the police reports were contradicted by that video and no one said anything. if that investigation were to find some direct trail into the mayor's office, that might change but it's early enough in his term he might be able to -- might be able to ride it out
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you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. just book any flight you want then use your miles to cover the cost. now, that's more like it. what's in your wallet? breaking news out of chicago. downtown, protest involving as far as we can tell several hundred, perhaps more, protesters happening live right now, 2:30 chicago time. this all, of course, in reaction to recent events in chicago involving that city's police department, the release of two videotapes in particular, first, it was laquan mcdonald shot at the hands of a police officer now charged with murder and recently this week the release of a tape of ronald johnson also shot and killed by police. i want to bring in joy reed following this for us, was in chicago end of last week reporting on this very story.
we're seeing, again, probably hundreds of people out on the streets. we have seen it before. there was a large protest the day after thanksgiving. trying to make the way to michigan avenue, of course, a major commercial business district, lots of stores, this holiday time of year. what are we seeing? >> well, i think that you are seeing the emanuel administration, rahm emanuel's administration, trying to get its arms around and ahead of a situation spiraling in part because of laquan mcdonald case and other issues that the mayor is dealing with in the city and presided over the closing of about 50 public schools. the's rancor and the relationship they took for granted. cook county, where chicago is located, it's a city where you really need a substantial share of the african-american vote to be re-elected and he got that vote in the run-off which was
actually a close run-off for somebody as well-known and tied to the obama administration as he was. >> used to be the chief of staff of barack obama and re-elected this past spring to a second term. >> the run-off in the peak in october and when mcdonald was killed and the perception that the emanuel administration suppressed that video, attempted to cover up that crime, attempted to cover up that murder and not let that video emerge in the midst of an election is ingrained in people in chicago. i have spoken with people close to the mayor's office and deny they did suppress the video and the way it play out, a settlement a month before the election, the fact there was an attempt to wrap up the case on the civil side and put suspicion in the citizens and you saw the mayor speaking to the city council. they're not exactly thrilled with the mayor either.
>> we talked to an alderman that said they were never informed of this tape, the settlement with the mcdonald family. >> they approved the settlement. >> i'm sorry. approved but felt like they didn't have all the evidence. >> weren't fully informed. what happened in big cities like chicago is that you have city councils in chicago, there's a finance committee, about 35 of the 50 or so members that have to approve any settlement higher than $100,000. and it's become so routine to get these settlements through, including in cases of police misconduct settling with the families to avoid a lawsuit and larger liability to the city, the attorney for the city goes to council at the scheduled meeting and present this series of items think need to check off. the laquan mcdonald case was in a series of items and took probably no mar than 15 minutes to sign off with the case made by the city saying he had seen the video. to be clear, the mayor said he didn't see it but the lawyer for
the city saw it and said to the council this is bad. we need to settle. the family approached the city in february of this year for a settlement. and within a month a preliminary settlement approved, a month after that, the city council voted for it. they feel that they were rushed -- >> steam rolled. >> in their view by the may why are's administration. >> we have sound today for context. this is live pictures of chicago, a protest happening right downtown. the commercial district. it's known as the loop in chicago. but i want to play the sound of earlier a few hours ago, mayor emanuel addressing the city council. >> i own it. i take responsibility for what happened because it happened on my watch. and if we're going to fix it, i want you to understand it's my responsibility with you. but if we're also going to begin the healing process, the first
step in that journey is my step. and i'm sorry. >> so rahm emanuel, joy, apologizing and looking at live pictures here and protesters i think about to cross over the chicago river. people probably know as the river that turns green on st. patrick's day downtown. i wonder what this potentially leads to. we're watching a very peaceful protest. thank goodness. but what happens next? >> i think you are going to see a very difficult governing period for rahm emanuel appears at least today a lame duck essentially mayor who still has another three years to go in his term. he wouldn't have to run for re-election and start in 2018 and he's looking at a city that still has a lot of issues on the table, public schools and think need to deal with that, public safe safety. a lot of things to get done with the city council which is now
not on his side and not really feeling good about the mayor. you have a public still with a ground swell of demand to resign from everything i'm hearing emanuel has no intention of resigning and not going to resign and an election coming up for the state attorney anita alvarez. >> right. >> which could be very contentious with an african-american woman running against her and favored by the black leadership in the chicago and a lot of politics at play not good for rahm emanuel. >> let's go back to john yang in chicago. john, are you still in the same spot? >> i am. i'm -- i'm actually in the bureau. >> which is not far from what we're looking at, is it? >> exactly. looking actually on your screen, a little to the right side of the screen, we are just beyond that. what you are seeing is blocking the traffic at the corner of michigan and whacker. michigan avenue, the main thoroughfare north-south. whacker drive which runs
east-west along the chicago river at that point. the police, it looks like they have stopped on their own. they stopped to block traffic. in previous protest marches the police have gone to great pains to keep the marches from crossing the river. from going north on michigan avenue into when's called the magnificent mile which is the high-end shopping area which is so crucial to this city's tourism, to chicago's tourism and attracts shoppers from around the world, and the image conscious mayor worries about having pictures of disruption along that area. so, we'll have to see what's going to happen. you know, along with what joy was saying, about the challenges to the mayor right now, the challenges to the police are not just the mcdonald case, not just the johnson case. that was resolved or the state's
attorney declined to press charges on monday. as we speak, in two courtrooms in chicago, there is a -- in the city courtroom, a county courtroom, rather, there is a highly praised commander praised by the past police superintendent gary mccarthy and praised by this mayor rahm emanuel who's on trial for brutality charges. it is alleged that he stuck a gun down the throat of a suspect and jammed a taser into his groin and threatened him if he didn't give him certain information. in federal court, another long-standing policeman, a retired now, he was a horse mounted policeman, is on trial or is facing a lawsuit for allegations that while off duty, while on his way home from working the gay pride parade here in chicago, he beat up three women motorists in a road rage incident on the expressway.
and called police reporting an officer in trouble. and got the police and the county -- state police to back him up. there are all sorts of problems. the teachers are taking a strike vote starting today. running through friday. they could strike early next year. if there are more layoffs because of funding problems in the city. he's got a lot of things on the plate but by far, kate, this is the biggest crisis rahm emanuel faced in the five years as may why are. >> with us is ari melber here at msnbc. you have been listening to this. john mentions these two cases that just happen to be in court in hearings today in chicago along with the two videos that we're so familiar with now. the department of justice is investigating chicago's police department as we speak. >> that's right. kate, we are looking at these incredible images of america's
third largest city here and gatherings that if anything seem to be gathering steam and some places we see people, of course, standing around and holding signs and also on their phones like any other normal activity and we see people walking into the streets, trying to send the message that this is not business as usual. clearly, i think this is a representation of what some people in chicago believe which is that this is too little too late. john yang's reporting obviously correct. there are trials going on. those are based on allegation that is are dated. then you have the reaction from rahm emanuel here to already remove two police leaders, the superintendent as well as the head of the police investigations unit and this rather unprecedented federal investigation of the chicago police department. if anyone thought that was going to calm things down up on the street of chicago, here's your answer. you can see it with your own eyes. there are a lot of folks, particularly younger folks and a
generational divide in the city i think we have discussed before about how people approach the issues and not enough, too late and these folks are saying they don't believe rahm emanuel. he has to go. the only other legal point, kate, rahm emanuel spent so long defending every component part of the way the city deals with allegations of police misconduct from within the department, in terms of public statements put out, all the way up the line to that police investigation process we have been covering and the prosecutors and the settlements that joy was describing and changing each one of those planks, kate, everyone following this knows that these are changes he didn't want to make and don't trust necessarily he'll make them when the energy changes or the attention changes so this is a clear statement i think from at least this wing of protesters that it's not enough and i would also notice the contrast you and others talking
of the elected leadership. today, an alderman was on. we have to see what the task force said. that was the message of a democratic leader of chicago. what you are seeing on the streets live unfolding and thank goodness it's peaceful so far and seeing is the answer to that, kate. no, we're not waiting a couple more months. >> right. and i want to point out for viewers just joining us, you are seeing aerial shots. that's tape. so that happened at the beginning of this gathering, the protest in downtown chicago. which really is just coming together in the last hour or so. but that tape on the right is from earlier. on the left side of your screen is local affiliate nbc affiliate wmaq and their camera capturing live images and happening right now. sort of hard to get perspective on how many people we have got because it's in the crush of the crowd there. but ari makes a point.
rahm emanuel when this all started, first he said it was one rogue police officer. >> right. >> and then he said it's handled on our own. i don't need the department of justice, paraphrasing, to come in and investigate the chicago police department. and then by this week, he was saying by monday he was saying, oh no, that's great. we welcome this investigation. >> right. well, so, i spoke with, again, some sourtss around the mayor's office who pushed back on that by saying, well, when emanuel misspoke in their view, essentially saying the fbi is already investigating the laquan mcdonald case and don't need to start again with a fresh doj investigation of that case. >> he had said they didn't want to duplicate efforts or have people working on three different -- >> right. remember that you did have already three. ipra supposed to be independent authority to investigate police shootings and accused by whistle-blower of stacking the deck in favor of clearing cops. >> he just replaced the head of
that agency just this woke. >> on sunday. right. replaced that person and also the police commander. you had the chief of detectives of the chicago police department step down on monday. the same day the feds announced they were coming in and doing an investigation of the entire department, a pattern and practice investigation and the mayor's office says it supports. you have not only had the mcdonald tape come out and the ronald johnson shooting and the family says he was shot in the back by police officers and he was not threatening and the police reports of the five officers who were on the scene at the laquan mcdonald incident come out and contradicted what was in the video and no action taken against the five officers and the city council people coming out with interviews with yourself, thomas roberts saying, wait a minute, wait a minute. we weren't fully normed. they have to be re-elected in chicago. an enthe question i think that i asked when i'm speaking with
people in and around the mayor's office and people in chicago are asking, is if it took 30 days for the city council having heard what their lawyer -- the city's lawyer had to say about mcdonald case, act in 30 days to spend $5 million of chicago taxpayers' money to pay the family of mcdonald, why seven more months for the state's attorney to diecide there's a crime there and only citing the video? looking at the crowd there that we can see that are fixated on the person of rahm emanuel is, you know, the other person that's also on the minds of many chicagoans is state attorney anita alvarez, took that extra time and there is still in addition i should point out a federal, a fbi investigation of laquan mcdonald shooting as well as the third trial that john yang mentioned of a 30-year police commander who's accused
of sticking a gun into the mouth of a person he had chased down the street and accused of having a gun, this is glenn evans, and that case is also roiling chicago at the same time. >> there's another statistic and i don't remember it but the number of times ipra looked at cases of potential police misconduct and the number of actual rep ll ll ll ll lly rebr >> there's a control process of something rising to manslaughter or second-degree murder and then a disciplinary process of are you shooting people too often when you don't need to be? the numbers show and cited in the letter to the attorney general of chicago asking the doy to get involved saying something is wrong. if more than 99% of the time there's no disciplinary action whatsoever.
another to int to make, kate, looking at the images of chicago, everybody remembers ferguson and a negative way because some of the protests did get so out of hand and street violence, more citizens and officers were put in danger. you remember that was covered for days on end in the u.s. press. that was a department of 54 officers, kate. what we're looking at here is a department of 13,000 officers. and many, many more people in the protests and these being large and some cases going to the streets but these are far larger and over a range of misconduct allegations and i would note they're overwhelmingly so far peaceful protests. in other words, people gathering and trying to get their voices heard and in a dynamic so difficult in the city of chicago for so many people overwhelmingly peaceful and civil and that is notable given that there is a tension here of emanuel saying trust me, i reversed myself on every
substantive issue but trust me and the public saying we don't trust you. we want more change and going to ask for that ar dantly and peacefully, kate. >> ari, i want to go back to the mayor spoke this morning. people may have missed that. 9:00 local time in chicago. he was addressing city hall. i want to play another peace of sound from mayor emanuel this morning. >> if my children are treated one way, every child is treated the same way. there is one standard for our young men. >> joy, he is known for his fiery temper for his language. he's known as an or or tator an saying i understand. we're going to fix this. >> i think what you are seeing now and the emotion of rahm emanuel, not emanuel we are used from the lore of him as an f-bomb throwing tough guy. >> trash talking. >> tough guy. is i think what you're seeing and what you are seeing on your
screen, kate, is a mayor losing the confidence. that is vote of no confidence. in mayor emanuel on the streets of chicago. this is important not because it affects the re-election. because one of the thing this is's really burning a lot of chicagoans is that this didn't get to play out in the election. that they didn't get to litigate this during the course of the election last year because in their view the information they needed to litigate whether the chicago police department was really changing was kept from them. the mayor's office said it wasn't because of them but an ongoing two investigations and that's the way people i talk to in chicago feel. they didn't get a chance to litigate this when it counted. >> joy, ari, stand by for a moment. i want to go to carol marine, our correspondent in chicago for wmaq who's been doing excellent reporting all along about the situation on the ground in chicago. carol, are you there? >> i am, kate. >> are you -- give us a sense for what you're seeing or
hearing about what's -- how big this protest is. it's hard for us to tell from our vantage point. >> kate, the protest earls really are protesters are very near the nbc tower right now. what they've done is, they're moving down what we call the magnificent mile, the gold coast, a very pricey shopping district. they have shut down traffic functionally going both ways right outside the tribune tower. >> is that the picture that we're seeing on the left side, where the stop light and traffic stopped in each direction? >> you're seeing a green light right now. >> what intersection is that? >> this is the intersection of michigan avenue approaching ohio. >> okay. >> and so it's right in the throbbing heart of the big shopping district. >> right. >> and it's a pretty contained crowd. chicago police on either side of it, but the protesters, as you can see and i can see, are
moving in and around traffic. so you've got gridlock. >> and hard to get a sense, carol, but would you say hundreds of protesters today? >> there have been hundreds of protesters today, both in city hall and then moving on through from city hall now down michigan avenue. a lot of these people were disturbed that they couldn't even be in the city council room when rahm emanuel was making his speech. a very managed crowd in there of invited guests. these were not the invited guests. >> and to give a sense for whether there was planned, john yang said earlier, it was sort of impromptu, organized this morning. is this just kind of happening in the moment? >> no, i think this is a combination of some spontaneity and some planned. the protests outside the council chambers was planned for today and this is to some degree spillover and maybe some degree others joining in.
but, what it is an example of, is that while emanuel made an amazing and historic speech and a mea culpa that he's not accustomed to, it's not necessarily embraced by people who think it should have happened a long time ago. >> you've been doing so much reporting about laquan mcdonald and that case. are we reaching a boiling point? >> laquan mcdonald, kate, was the tipping point. the boiling point, we haven't boiled. but it's more than a simmer. there is, i talked to a state lawmaker today, lesean ford, democrat, from one of the poorer neighborhoods in chicago, who has just filed legislation today for a recall provision for the mayor of chicago. we haven't seen that.
recall provisions are very rare, but he's asking state governments to pass it. there are many high hurdles and thresholds, but it's a kind of statement when the black caucus is the reason rahm emanuel got elected the first time in large numbers. >> so, carol, there is a process whereby someone could try to recall the mayor? >> there is. but first of all, this legislation has to pass, and then you need tens of thousands of signatures. and so there are a whole variety of ways that this has to happen. 85,000 voters have to sign petitions. it's not an easy thing to pull off, but it is a symbolic statement by a democratic-controlled legislature that they would even consider it. >> right, against a democratic mayor. >> yes. >> carol marine, political editor at wmaq in chicago, thanks so much for joining us. >> my pleasure, kate. >> let me go to nbc's kevin
tibbles out among the crowds in chicago. oh, i see you, kevin. kevin, can you hear me? it's kate snow. [ inaudible ] >> reporter: they're saying it's a peaceful protest and as far as i can attest, at this moment in time, it certainly has been. these protesters are walking straight down michigan avenue, the heart of the shopping area here in chicago. they are calling for the removal of rahm emanuel and anita alvarez as you've just been talking about. there are hundreds of police officers on the streets, but as i just mentioned to you, protesters here have been peaceful. >> we ain't here to hurt nobody. [ all speak at once ] >> we want justice! >> our daddies getting killed! we ain't here to hurt nobody. >> they killed my brother, man. they killed my homey.
[ cheers and applause ] >> i don't know what happened. >> can you hear me? sorry, kevin, can you hear kate now? >> yes, i do. >> kevin? >> i can hear you. >> okay, sorry, i know it's a noisy crowd there. >> yes. >> tell me what their demands are. are they all there because they want rahm emanuel to step down? >> yes, they're calling for the ousting of rahm emanuel and anita alvarez today. obviously everyone is aware of what the speech took place from the mayor this morning, his apology for the handling of the situation in regards to the death of laquan, but obviously that is not enough for these protesters here. and they're still chanting in the background that they want
rahm emanuel to go. this is the same shopping district that was essentially shut down on black friday and during that peaceful protest, a lot of the stores in this area were virtually devoid of any customers. i believe that's what they are hoping takes place as well today. but, again, a peaceful protest, there are a lot of police on the streets here in numbers. there have been a few minor arrests, but kate, i can tell you now that this is -- this march is essentially going down the street. people are watching. there are some curious. others are joining the march. >> kevin, have they said if they intend to stay out all day, or how long this goes? sorry, i know it's hard to hear. have they said how long they'll stay out? >> i have not heard that. i have heard -- no, i have heard police officers talking amongst themselves, that they are not going to let this go on.
i don't know what that means. i only overheard this among the police officers, but we are essentially nearing the end of the magnificent mile, as they call it here in chicago. those familiar with the chicago area know that this is the main shopping area. these people have essentially marched from millennium park and are going up towards the oak street end of the magnificent mile. when they get to the other end, i don't know if they'll turn back and go back, or whether we'll disperse or go somewhere else. they've already visited city hall and elsewhere. as i mentioned earlier, a couple of hundred protesters here. there are reports of some incidents, some minor arrests, but again, i want to stress that as far as i have seen, this has been a peaceful march. as a matter of fact, people here, kate, have been chanting that this is a peaceful march. others are chanting, this is
democracy in action. some motorists are honking their horns, i'm assuming in support of this. and as you hear now, and as i just mentioned, kate, we're reaching the end of the main shopping district here in chicago, illinois. [ shouting and horns honking ] >> shouting that rahm emanuel has to go. >> i know you can keep reporting and talking to people and finding out what their complaints are. thanks so much for the live reporting. joy, as we look at this, it doesn't seem to be a huge group of people, but that almost doesn't matter. it's the symbolic message of what they're trying to say. >> yeah, and just following on social media some of what is going on, and the people who are tweeting in live time, talking about what's going on there, saying one of the key organizers is a high school junior, and this is a march being spearheaded and led by students.
rahm emanuel, even before the laquan mcdonald case, has had a lot of issues on the issue of education, on school closures, particularly in black communities, and in poor communities in chicago. his relationship with the african american community has been troubled, i would say, since his re-election. that said, he does have a base within the black leadership that -- or at least he did. but you're starting to see that unravel and break down. and rahm emanuel now is really pushing to try to get back the confidence both of the city council of the aldermen that you've seen coming out and speaking and of the citizens. this is a youth-led movement. part of the overall black lives matter movement, and the demand here is very simple. they want rahm emanuel and anita alvarez as state eaattorney to . >> as we approach 3:00 in chicago, i want to bring our viewers up to speed on what you're seeing if you're just joining us. this is a protest under way in downtown chicago. the shot on the left side of
your screen is up because earlier protesters had blocked that intersection. they've now moved beyond it at the top of your screen there. we have live cameras following along with the protesters. we heard kevin tibbles say that there are 200 or 300 protesters. so it's not an enormous group of people. but as joy just said, it is a young group. a lot of the protesters that we're seeing, appear to be students or young people. we've heard that one of the organizers was a high school student. john yang, our correspondent in chicago was reporting that he heard that a local high school had let out early so that students could join this very peaceful at this point in time protest, marching among the magnificent mile in downtown chicago. that's where christmas shoppers would be out this time of year. it's where all of the major department stores and designer stores are in downtown chicago, a very heavily trafficked area, and the protesters have been impeding traffic in that area. john yang is back with us again.
john, this all stems out of what's been happening in your city over the last few weeks. >> that's right. this is all anger spilling over. and actually it's not just the last few weeks, it's the last several months, some would argue the last several years, with the number of police shootings in this city. gary mccarthy, the outgoing police superintendent who lost his job over laquan mcdonald case, pointed with pride, saying that the number of police-involved shootings was down, i think the figure is 70% over the last four years, but that just brings it down to the level of, say, new york city which is a much larger city than chicago. and again, also, i want to underscore a couple of points that kevin made and i probably was remiss for not stressing myself is that this, the protests we've seen over laquan mcdonald over the past couple of weeks, over the last several days, have all been peaceful.
this has not been anything near to -- compared to what we saw in ferguson over the shooting of michael brown. some of it also, i think you have to credit the response of the police. they have not come out heavy-handed. they have not come out heavily armed and heavily geared up. this has been a peaceful protest. kate? >> john yang in our chicago bureau. i want to go back to kevin tibbles out on the street among the protesters. kevin? >> i'm speaking with jason. what's your last name? >> bowles. >> jason bowles. you have recently moved to chicago, but why are you walking on the street? >> well, because the segregation that's here and the upsetness between the races and pretty evident and it's very upsetting and i'm really upset and it makes me feel sad that when i was a child, i grew up being
afraid of having a child, where they would grow up in an age where their body would be submitted to the wills of other people. >> can you ask you, the fact that we're in chicago in 2015, i'm sure you've seen the video that has sparked a lot of this protest. how important was it for you today to come out and show your support for this movement then? >> important enough to call out sick. [ laughter ] >> reporter: well, that's a very good point. i think another point that you made, was that you wanted to make sure, you said this to me prior to being on camera. you wanted to make sure that the police knew that you were coming in peace today. is that correct? >> strangely enough, yes. because if anything gets intense, i want them to be cool. if they see everyone yelling at them and being angry, i can say, hey, guys, i really appreciate them because they're being safe, cool, and calm, so we can straight our opinions. if we block traffic and do it in
a safe, calm manner, we'll have our results, which is to have rahm emanuel step down and anita alvarez step down peacefully and carry on with their careers somewhere else. >> if the mayor does step down, who would you like to replace him? >> i'd let the people decide through voting. >> i've heard people chanting, this is democracy in action, would you agree with that chant? >> absolutely. because democracy is always changing and shaping and if we can take a moment to express our voices and to be heard and to do something radical, maybe we can create change. >> i'm just going to go one last question at you. you said you don't hold any animosity towards the police force in this city. in spite of the fact that that young man was shot 16 times and it took over a year for the video to come out. why are you not -- i don't know what the word is. why are you not more angry about that, or are you angry about it and you're just holding it back? >> well, typically how
conspiracies work, it's a few people that are doing it, and these are tons of police officers. so it was one officer that shot him, and there was some other people that are higher up with seniority that knew more about it. and so i don't think being mean to the other folks that are here to do the right thing is the right thing to do. >> so you've come in peace? >> yeah. because, you know, like what happens with peaceful revolutions and such, is that someone comes in, they create some sort of disturbance and then all hell breaks loose, and then it becomes, oh, like they're violent. and that destroys the message. so if it's peaceful and some of these officers can go home and see one person that looks like me saying thank you, and we appreciate it, they won't be so upset when they go home. >> thank you very much for sharing your views. >> thank you. >> we've now stopped, kate, outside the hancock building here in downtown chicago. back to you. >> all right, kevin tibbles on
the ground there. everybody knows the hancock building, one ever the tallest buildings in america. i'm joined on set watching all this happen. tremayne, let me go to you. you just joined us. you followed many incidents over the past couple of years. you've been in touch very frequently with black lives matter. how do you see this fitting into the larger, national context? >> it falls almost like a puzzle piece. the last few days, i talked to act slifts and organize in chicago who as many guests have said, have been a long history of what they allege are abuses. one name comes up over and over again. a young lady who was killed by an offduty police officer in 2012. he was offduty, an unregistered handgun, and apparently he was drunk at the time, fired into a crowd of teenage erltion, striking and killing this young lady. he was acquitted in april of
this. tonight is the ipra meeting, for more than a year, they've been going to this meeting and demanding that that officer lose his job. what these folks are saying, now it matters. we've been coming to you time and time again, saying that there are problem police officers, pointing out case after case, and it doesn't matter until now. so they say the apology from rahm emanuel is too little too late. >> i'm glad you mentioned rackia boyd. the black lives matter movement was born at the university of chicago. there's also a black lives matter chicago branch. they are together planning a rally for rackia boyd, specifically 7:00 this easteven. they want to focus it on rackia boyd and laquan mcdonald and robert johnson. by the way, the prosecutor, who lost the rackia boyd case,
because the judge essentially alleged the prosecutor mischarged the case and wound up losing it, was anita alvarez, the same state attorney who declined to prosecute in the case of the young man who was shot in the back as he was running away. the same state attorney who is now being accused of suppressing the laquan mcdonald tape and not charging the five other officers whose police reports directly contradict the video and who a lot of black chicagoans, based on the reporting from our affiliate, are being accused of tampering with surveillance video where mcdonald was shot. so there are a myriad of issues. then the glen evans trial, one of the two cases ari melber mentioned, that has ever resulted, out of 390-something cases, in an officer being
disciplined. th glen evans was disciplined and this was after dozens of complaints of misuse of force against him. he was stripped of his command after being accused of sticking his pistol into the mouth of a suspect. the prosecution actually rested in that case today. dna from the young man was found on that officer's gun. >> and he used a taser. >> and tased him, yes. >> and there was another case of a mounted police officer, allegations that he beat up three female motorists which is being heard in chicago, coincidentally today as well. so tremayne, it sounds like i need a scorecard to keep track of all the cases that you're mentioning. and the one that you mentioned for tonight, tell me her name again. >> rackia boyd. >> i'm not as familiar with that one. but it's been around for, as you said, it was resolved about a year ago. >> especially around the black lives matter movement. so much has been made about the young men who are killed in
state-sanctioned violence. but this is the case of a young woman, who was promising and everyone loved her. she was with a group of teenagers and the police officer was complaining about racket outside of his house. he heard this group of teenagers outside, making some noise. according to his testimony, he went outside to get a burger, but he happened to have this unregistered handgun with him. saw a young person with a cell phone. he fired into the crowd and shot this young lady. but to your point earlier, we almost do need a scorecard, the tally of death across this country, the tally of protests. but as the organizers have congealed around this notion of black lives matter and we see this vast network of organizers from young and old, gathering around cases like this in chicago, and charleston and baltimore, and even as they're maturing and finding a political platform, they're still on the ground, pushing and fighting. we haven't seen that in recent years, but now it's finally maturing in that fashion. >> and i think part of the reason you're seeing the focus
on the magnificent mile here. anywhere living in chicago will tell you, if you live on the far south side or the west side of chicago, you almost live in a different side of the city from where people live on the affluent side of chicago. so these activists are deliberately taking this protest into the heart of the chicago retail community, the magnificent mile, the economic heart of the city to make their point. this is not going to be a protest that confines its to the south side. >> one of the other things that's happening in the news today, in the wake of police shooting investigations, the fbi announced today they'll make drastic changes to their system of tracking police shootings and incidents, not even just shootings, but incidents involving force with police. they'll expand the information that the fbi gathers in those encounters. i want to bring in david clinger, former police officer himself and professor of criminalology at the university
of missouri in st. louis. you've been calling on the fbi to make these changes for a long time. why? >> well, to make a very long story short, it's not just me. we've been talking for three and a half decades to get good data on officer-involved shootings. the reason, it's the ultimate power of the state when a police officer puts a bullet in the body of a citizen. not necessarily calling on the fbi to change their data collection system, but rather for a national database. it matters not to me if it's the fbi, or bureau of statistics, or if we could get all 50 states to collect the data and send it off to a federal clearing house, whatever the case might be, just so long as we can have adequate information. i'm actually against the notion of including lesser forms of force initially. i think what we should do, we should square away an officer-involved shooting database, that would include not
just the people who are killed by gunfire, but the people struck by police gunfire and survive. more people are struck and live. and also the shootings where officers discharge their firearms and nobody is hit. and that way we can have a comprehensive picture of how often officers employ deadly force, whether it has deadly consequences or not. >> is it easy enough for officers who are involved in something -- you were a former officer yourself. i can imagine, it might be a little bit time consuming for them to sit down and every time they encounter someone, have to make a report. >> well, every time force is used, documenting that is something that is fairly easily done. but getting it from the officer's pen, so to speak, or his or her keyboard, up to the feds is going to take a while. that's one reason why i don't think we should go with lesser forms of force, which will vary across different police
departments. but when a police officer puts a bullet down range, that is something that every police officer in the country knows, hey, i just used deadly force and a report should be generated not by that officer, but rather by his or her agency, or an outside agency that comes in. the officer would write something or give a verbal statement. but then that officer is out of it and it's up to the agency to go ahead and report that information up to the feds. and so that's why i think it's something that should be law enforcement agencies reporting information at the -- once the investigation is to the point where it's clear they have all the documentation, then it can go ahead and be reported, but it's going toic itake a little of time. as someone who's been involved in reviewing investigative case forces, it takes a lot of time to get all of the information squared away and finding a way to get the database set up, it's not going to be a simple task and that's why it will take time to get it up and running. but if we focus on just officer
involved shootings, i believe we'll stand it up in fairly short order. >> university of missouri professor, thanks so much for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> we'll keep an eye on everything that's happening in chicago, plus coming up, new details on donald trump's upcoming visit to israel. andrea mitchell joins us up next. i accept i'm not the rower i used to be.. i even accept i have a higher risk of stroke due to afib, a type of irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. but i won't accept is getting out there with less than my best. so if i can go for something better than warfarin, i will. eliquis. eliquis reduced the risk of stroke better than warfarin, plus it had significantly less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis had both. that really mattered to me. don't stop taking eliquis unless your doctor tells you to,
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>> we're following a number of stories this afternoon here on msnbc. today israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu confirmed that he will meet with donald trump in israel later this month, despite political backlash back home, his office releasing a statement, saying, prime minister netanyahu rejects donald trump's recent remarks
about muslims. also today a report that trump is considering a visit in israel to the temple mout, a jerusalem holy site, which is sparking security concerns as well. joining me now, nbc news andrea mitchell. what do we know about this trip? >> it was planned several weeks ago and confirmed for december 28th and that netanyahu, while under pressure to handle it, has said he agreed to host either candidate in any political party and that was his decision and he wasn't going cancel donald trump under pressure by at least a petition from 1/3 of their parliament, both arabs and jews, complaining about the visit because of donald trump's most recent comments. his previous comments about muslims to nbc about a database and about registration, but these most recent comments about banning all muslims to the united states, certainly the most egregious as far as the
critics are concerned. but netanyahu is still saying he's going to meet with him. donald trump has an uneasy relationship. while he has support in the jewish community from republicans, he was not well received by many people at the jewish republican coalition last week, when his remarks and his jokes were not -- didn't go over very well, let's say. they seemed to appeal to, or reflect several stereotypes about jews and there were tweets and other online comments in social media that they were border line anti-semitic. so he's walking a fine line here. he's very hard-lined and that fits with netanyahu, certainly. but kate, it doesn't fit with a lot of other people and certainly not with arab israelis. >> and andrea, the jerusalem post reporting today trump may make a visit to the temple, a holy site in jerusalem. that's got to raise security
concerns. >> it does. that's the holiest site. there's a jordanian religious group that runs this under an agreement with the israelis and there's a very difficult history there. it was ariel sharon's visit in september of 2000 to the temple mount that set off the intifada. so it's a point of real friction. control over those holy sites has been one of the major points of negotiation as the final settlement issues in any arab/israeli agreement and especially at a time when there's been so much recent friction. if he were to go to the temple mount, it would be a major issue. and anyone advising him should let donald trump know, though he doesn't seem to have very many foreign policy advisers, that this would set off a fire storm for sure. >> andrea mitchell, thanks so much for that update. following the massacre in san bernardino last week,
president obama urged americans not to demonize muslims, but on monday, donald trump did the opposite. joining me now with more reaction to trump's comments among the muslim american community is imamifi fizal abdua uf. thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you. >> we've been talking for 48 hours now at least about donald trump's comments, a ban on muslims entering this country. as you talk to your membership, as you talk to your community, what are you seeing? how are you counselling people? >> well, it's very clear that his proposition is a losing proposition. for somebody who doesn't like losers, this puts him into the loser category very clearly. it's a bad idea, it's immoral upon and it's not a workable idea. the united states has major interests in the muslim world. we have troops in afghanistan, in iraq, we have major interests
with muslim majority countries, turkey, saudi arabia, and it's just not practical. it makes about as much sense as saying because the shootings in columbine and west virginia were done by white males, let's stop all white males between the ages of 17 and 21 until we get our hands around this. it's not feasible, it's not doable, it's not practical. >> donald trump has been speaking out today. he appeared earlier on the kelly & michael talk show, and said this ban has nothing to do with religion. take a listen. >> we're going to have tremendous problems, it's getting worse and worse. and those problems are coming from a certain sector. now, i did it for a limited period of time. but our country has to get its act together. these are people that aren't in the country. the people that are in the country, they're in the country. we're not talking about them. these are people that are outside of the country. so we're not talking about the constitution. it's not about religion. it's about safety.
>> so he says two things there. problems are coming, in his words, from a certain sector, but that this really isn't about religion. when you hear him say that, you think what? >> well, first of all, disagreed publicly with his remarks, prime minister netanyahu. and he's not a dumb person. so his remarks about muslims is something that even jewish leaders and jewish people have been against. many americans have been against. i think it's something which may herald the demise of his candidacy for the post of president. >> what are you hearing from, you know, from your community? from your mosque? what are you hearing as far as fear? as far as backlash? >> well, there's a concern certainly among the muslim community that this will add to the backlash. every time an act of terrorism
occurs, our worst fear is that it's conducted by a person of our faith, because it creates this additional fear and concern in the community. but terrorism, we are all victims of terrorism together. and muslims are just as much, if not more, victims of terrorism as non-muslims. and this is a fact, we have to work together. we must cooperate together. the fight is not between muslims and americans. it's between the extremists and terrorists of all stripes, of all varieties. so all of us who consider ourselves moderates, peace-loving people, have to work together and cooperate together to get rid of terrorism. >> on monday, the severed head of a pig was found outside a mosque in philadelphia. the mayor was asked about that and talked about it. the police and the fbi are investigating that. have you seen any incidents like that here in new york. do you worry about that? >> thank god we haven't had any incidents happen like this in
new york city. it's something which concerns us. it's a form of hate speech. it's just like, you know, peo e people -- this kind of hate speech has no place in civilized society, has no place in our country. it is unamerican, it is immoral, it is wrong. >> imam, thanks so much for being with us today. >> thank you for having me. up next, nbc news exclusive. how easy is it to get a stolen american passport? our richard engel with the eye-opening answer. plus the reality of war. defense secretary ash carter on capitol hill telling lawmakers that isis is not contained in iraq and syria. some cash back cards love to overcomplicate things. like limiting where you earn bonus cash back. why put up with that? but the quicksilver card from capital one likes to keep it simple. real simple. i'm talking easy like-a- walk-in-the-park, nothing-to-worry-about, man-that-feels-good simple.
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commercial section. section filled with shoppers this time of year. commercial district. nbc's kevin tibbles joins me now with more on the protest that appears to still be under way. kevin? kevin, can you hear kate? >> reporter: -- which is filled with restaurants and bars here. kate, are you getting this? >> yes, we are. go ahead. >> caller: kate, are you getting this? >> yes. go ahead. okay, great. [ inaudible ] -- you're a high school senior. >> yes. >> what are you doing here? >> i feel like i need to support everyone in the city. the problems that we're having now is not just the african american thing. it's everyone. it's multi cultural. it's not just one problem.
so i'm here to support everyone. >> a lot of people saying this is democracy in action. [ inaudible ] >> if everyone's together, we can do anything. democracy is what we're entitled to. this is what america is based on, democracy. >> do you feel that you are participating in democracy? do you feel that you are as equal as other citizens in this country because of what you look like? >> yes. not because of what i look like. but what i stand for. i don't think it's just because of my appearance. i feel like everyone has -- [ inaudible ] it's not about appearance nor race. >> now, the mayor of the city apologized this morning. he said that he was going to take -- [ inaudible ] -- do you accept his apology?
>> no. because if it was genuine, he would have -- well, first of all, it was wrong to begin with. as mayor, you should want your people to know what's going on in your city. you shouldn't want to cover anything up. >> you believe it was a cover-up? >> yes, i do. >> how long are you going to continue? >> as long as i need to. >> all right. are you one of the people who was also chanting for the mayor to resign? >> yes. >> will you continue to march until he does? >> yes, i will. >> there have been a few minor skirmishes, but as i told you before, kate, this has been pretty much a peaceful protest. they have gone by city hall. they have gone up the magnificent mile shopping area. now we're stopped for the moment. but as we've just heard from
this lady, many people say they're prepared to stay out all night if they have to. >> thank you, kevin. it's very noisy there, the audio is a little bit difficult. but i want to point out, we where were watching the exchange there between police and protesters, everything peaceful, but you could see the tension. for now, i want to turn to the nbc news exclusive that we told you about in the last hour. an investigation about stolen american passports, and the ability to purchase u.s. passports overseas in greece. joining me again, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. you have more from your exclusive interview with someone who was doing the selling? >> the story we're doing tonight focuses on a sting operation that a u.s. official, an agent from homeland security went to athens and posed as an isis buyer and said, i want to buy american passports for isis
fighters, and repeated, according to the person on the other side of the sting, the person who was providing it, three different times, this agent stressed that these passports were going to be used for isis. and he provided photographs, he provided names, and said these are the photographs and these are the names to put into the passports. and money was exchanged. and this person who was going to do the deal, ended up getting arrested by greek authorities. actually ended up getting arrested by greek authorities before the sting could come into effect. so there's a bit of a complication, why the american authorities were doing the sting operation, weren't able to actually make an arrest or effect an arrest, why they left him in play and he was later picked up by the greeks. still something that's an open question here. but this forger is now in greek custody. he's behind bars in greece. while he was in a greek jail, i managed to interview him. i was sitting in his lawyer's
office, and we got him on the phone and i think we have some of that to play now. >> were there many on the market, if you had wanted to buy, 20, 30, 40, could you have done that? >> yes. you know, this is market. sometime you want something you cannot find. you get hard to find it. and other time you a lot of people come to you and ask you do you want, i have this passport, 10, 5. you understand. it's the market. it depends at time. sometimes a lot, sometimes little. if somebody went 20 or 30 passports, he will find it. >> did he tell you he wanted the passports for members of isis, for members of daesh? >> yes, he said that. >> so you don't care who you sell the passport to or for what reason? >> yes. my work is, i don't ask anybody
for who you want or what you want to do bypass port. okay? of course i don't ask anyone what you want to do or what you want to know. >> i was surprised at how candid he is. he is behind bars, in a greek jail right now, facing extradition charges to the united states, and he was saying, yes, i'm involved in this passport forgery ring. >> and the most telling part of what he's saying to you, richard, is that i don't ask questions. it doesn't matter to me who's buying the passport and what they're going to use it for. i would think that's the part that politicians here might seize on and say, you see, people can get a hold of real u.s. passports. >> that that have been doctored. >> and travel to this country. that's the fear so many have expressed. >> these passports, we've been talking a lot about this, i think it's important to point out, if you showed up with one of these, a doctored american passport at jfk or lax, an
american airport, and presented it to an immigration official, and they ran it through their computer system, you probably wouldn't get through, because the bar code wouldn't match, the identity perhaps would pull up another person. there would be an issue. it's a little bit like having a fake i.d. if you have a fake i.d. and you flash it at the bar in a restaurant, most of the time you'll get in. but if the police takes it back to the squad car and enters in all the numbers, you're going to be in trouble. so it might not work at the actual tight immigration office, but it could work for other checks where the controls aren't so tight. it could work in other countries pch. >> i was going to say, what if you enter into mexico or canada? >> or you can use documents to produce other documents. you can use it to cash a check. you can use it for a variety of other things. but if they're going to actually look at it and run the computer, it might come up as altered.
>> i'm sure you've been in touch with u.s. officials about this. >> we did today. they came back and said no comment on this case. >> no comment on this. >> because they're still trying to extradite the person who was the interview you just heard. so we just reached out and they said they didn't want to comment any further than has been in the public statements. >> in general, have u.s. officials expressed concern about the fact that people are buying u.s. passports on the black market? >> of course. this is something that, there was a sting operation launched. >> clearly there's concern. >> where an official from homeland security went to athens and this took months of planning. i don't know how much was spent, but this was a big operation. and there were two meetings. money exchanged hands. and before they could arrest him, he was picked up by the local police, which put a complication into the process. imagine like somebody who was trying to arrest a big drug pin,
and then the person they're carrying under surveillance ends up getting picked up for unrelated charges by the local cops. so that part, the arrest part, got a little bit complicated. but clearly, this is a concern to american security officials. otherwise they wouldn't be going around the world to try and find people who are in this business. >> it's fascinating. your reporting more of it tonight on "nbc nightly news" about two hours from now eastern time. people can check nbc local listings to find that. thanks so much. for more, i want to bring in from georgetown university, and former special assistant to president george w. bush for homeland security, frank salliveo. you've been listening to richard engel. i feel like i asked a stupid question there. are they concerned? of course, u.s. officials have to be concerned about what's happening. >> it clearly is a concern.
and while it was disconcerting what richard was able to find in his investigation, unfortunately, not surprising. what we're most concerned about is the nexus between criminal enterprises and foreign terrorist organizations. and there's a saying, smuggling is smuggling is smuggling, whether it's weapons, drugs, or people. unfortunately, the same actors and the same routes are often used by the bad guys. >> do you have any sense for the scale of this? we're talking about one guy who was part of a sting operation and tracked by u.s. authorities. are there many, many more where he comes from? >> you know, it's hard to get your arms around empirically just how big of a threat and concern this is. there's a lot of anecdotal data. i believe in recent years you've seen a spike in terms of the use of false travel documents, people coming in through mexico, i think, it's about a 25% spike in the past year and a half.
there's also anecdotally, if you think back to the millennium bomber, ahmed rasam, who was ultimately caught trying to come from canada into the united states. he allegedly got into canada through a forged or false or stolen passport. so you were asking about canada and mexico earlier. this is an area of concern, but i think richard is right. had they come to a port of entry in the u.s., in all likelihood, a bell would ring. >> help us understand the formatting of a u.s. passport. my passport looks like something i could not possibly tamper with. it looks very difficult to lay in a new picture and i know there are microchips embedded in the passport now. so how do you get past that? >> it's all about the biometric. but there are previous passports that are not fully up to the current standardization, i think, is a concern. and i think it is factored into
the bill, the bipartisan bill that has come by cameraly through the house and the senate to shore up some of the visa waiver initiatives that the president called for and asked for. it's not only fraudulent, it's stolen passports. interpol, for example, is where you store all the data of stolen travel documents. and there are many countries that don't provide that information, that don't provide that information to interpol. notably china, which obviously has a large population, but other countries as well. and then you need to be checking that data. allegedly, the malaysian air, i forget, 370, i think, had a couple of individuals on that flight allegedly with passports that came up in the so-called sltd database that interpol keeps. >> that's the stolen database? >> that's the stolen travel documents, yes. >> frank sill ufo thank you very much for being with us.
>> and it's george washington, not georgetown. >> i'm so sorry. two very different, wonderful institutions. i went to georgetown, so sorry, maybe i had it on the brain. >> no worries. >> thanks so much, frank. >> thank you, kate. up next, trump's plan is to block muslims from entering the united states, but how does that sit with servicemen and women who follow the islamic faith? a u.s. veteran joins me up next. phil! oh no... (under his breath) hey man! hey peter. (unenthusiastic) oh... ha ha ha! joanne? is that you? it's me... you don't look a day over 70. am i right? jingle jingle. if you're peter pan, you stay young forever. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. ♪ you make me feel so young... it's what you do. ♪ you make me feel ♪ so spring has sprung. at ally bank no branches equalsit's a fact.. kind of like mute buttons equal danger.
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donald trump's anti-muslim rhetoric comesad the pentagon announced this week that nearly 6,000 self-identified muslims are currently serving in the united states military. a number that's likely much higher due to the fact that those serves are not required to disclose their faith. joining me now, shaw choudry, iraq war veteran, thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you for having me, kate. >> i can almost imagine what your opinion is of what donald trump is calling for. but go ahead and tell me when you first heart his plan to block muslims from entering the united states, you thought what? >> well, i was upset. that's why i made the post on facebook that went viral. this is not a political message. it's an american message. when vice president, former vice president dick cheney and president obama are on the same side of an issue, there's a serious argument, there's a serious discussion that needs to
be had. go ahead. >> i was just going to mention, you posted a picture on facebook of your three cousins, currently serving in the marines, the air force, and the nypd. >> correct. >> and you yourself, bottom left there, served 15 months as platoon leader in iraq. and i assume everybody in your family is a practicing muslim? >> that's correct. so i wanted to tell our personal story, a story of first generation, born in the u.s. from a bangladeshi muslim household. when we wake up in the morning, we have the same issues that everyone else encounters. we're worried about taking our kids to school, getting to work on time, paying the bills, getting through the trials and tribulations of life. in my family, we have people from secular to religious, conservative to liberal. we represent this great nation as military and police officers, financial and health care professionals, pilots. so the message i wanted to convey is that we're just as american as everyone else. i was very upset when i made the message, but after the fact, i
was greatly surprised by the huge outpouring of love and support that we got from the public. >> how many times has it been shared now? >> my personal page has been shared close to 7,000 times. there's been other organizations that have shared it. so it's been in the 6 to 10 million views. so it's still continuing. >> you struck a chord for sure. but i do want to raise a bloomberg poll that came out today, which reflects the other side of this. 65%, it found, of gop primary voters agree with donald trump's muslim ban. and over a third say that it makes them more likely that they will vote for donald trump. so when you hear that, knowing that 65% of republican primary voters say that they agree with donald trump, how do you process that? >> it's hilarious, actually. if you think of it, first of all, it's unconstitutional. i swore an oath to protect the constitution, support and defend the constitution. it really makes me laugh.
after the initial anger boiled down. but it's just amazing how people just look at us like we're completely different people. but we're americans just like everyone else. we go through the same things that everyone else encounters in everyday life. >> thank you for being with us. >> okay, thank you. >> joining me now, "new york times" political correspondent patrick healey. he's examining donald trump's rhetoric and language used on the campaign trail. good to see you again. >> good to see you, kate. >> walk us through what you did. you looked at all of his language, was it over the past week that you looked at? and literally looked at the words being used? >> that's right, kate. we took basically every utterance that donald trump made at rallies, radio interviews, television interviews, anything off the cuff. we transcribed about 95,000 words. and then we subjected the material to different analyses.
we wrote computer scripts to compare donald trump's language with news conferences of sitting presidents, both democrats and republicans to try to get a sense of, sort of the qualitative aspects of his language. and also just kind of the words that he used. you know, as you know kate, from being a veteran of the trail yourself, you hear speeches over and over again and you get a sense of certain patterns that come through. and with trump it was sort of a series of, um, sort of angry, divisive, sometimes violent imagery and sort of phrases, that he would use over and over as well as what some people called some dog whistles. something's going on here. there's something going on with president obama that we don't know. you know, language that he put out there. and what was fascinating, kate, he has that entertaining quality about him that doesn't make him sound necessarily malevolent or malicious sometimes, but you
look at the words and you come away with a different understanding. >> and you talked -- you isolated a couple of other things, the habit of saying you and we against them and the tendency to attack a person personally rather than an idea. i want to play a little bit of sound that we pulled together, a greatest hits of donald trump. >> something bad is happening. something bad is happening. and we can't be the stupid ones. something really dangerous is going on. >> we have a president that refuses to use the term. he refuses to say it. there's something going on with him that we don't know about. >> and you know what darling, you're not going to be scared anymore. [ applause ] they're going to be scared. you're not going to be scared. >> we have to attack much stronger. we have to be more vigilant. we have to be much tougher. we have to be much smarter, or
it's never, ever going to end. >> pat, our telemundo/msnbc poll found that among gop voters, 71% of gop voters said trump was telling it like it is. 25% said it's insulting and offensive. so this is working with his crowd. >> absolutely, kate. these people are not going anywhere. they feel empowered by this language of we. when he said, we're going to build a wall and mexico's going to pay for it, he's not saying a trump administration is going to build a wall. it's we are going to build a wall. so these voters after years of joblessness, of losing homes, here's this billionaire celebrity who's coming in and saying, i am one of you, i am going to reflect the concerns and anxieties that you have and we are going to do this together. it's very powerful language when it's set against a they, or
those people, or these sort of others that he talks about. >> pat healey with the "new york times," appreciate your time. i'll put out a link out on twitter to your article because it was a fascinating read. thanks so much. >> thanks, kate. now here's hampton pearson with the cnbc market wrap. >> hello, kate. markets closing lower today. the dow dropping 76 points. the s&p off by 16, the nasdaq losing 75 points as well. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. glad i could help you plan for your retirement. alright, kelly and promise me that you'll try that taco place on south street. and we have portfolio planning tools to help you manage your ira. yeah, you're old 401k give me your phone. the rollover consultants give you step-by-step help. no set-up fees. use your potion. sorry, not you. my pleasure. goodnight, tim. for all the confidence you need. who's tim? td ameritrade. you got this.
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have new details on syed farook and tashfeen malik, the couple that went on that deadly shooting rampage exactly one week ago today. i want to bring in pete williams for more on that. pete? >> kate, the fbi director said today that as early as late 2013, both syed farook and tash mean malik seemed to be independently becoming radicalized even before they met online, even before she came to the united states. that was also before isis was any kind of worldwide influence. so it doesn't appear isis played a role in their initial radicalization, but say it may have become an influence later on. we also learned today when they went shooting, when malik went to shooting ranges in the area, she was, in fact, wearing traditional muslim dress, but that doesn't arouse enough suspicion that anyone called authorities to report it. and they're still questioning his neighbor, enrique marquez,
they want to know whether he has any knowledge of farook talking about earlier attacks, that farook decided not to carry out. >> and there are reports that farook talked about staging another attack three years ago. what do we know about that? >> that's the one i'm talking about that marquez would do with him. but he's told the fbi that they got cold feet and decided not to carry out. officials aren't saying what the targets were. >> pete williams, thanks so much. appreciate it. that does it for this hour, i'm kate snow. "mtp daily" up next. if it's wednesday, donald trump may be grabbing all the front pages in tv time. but its ted cruz the invisible front-runner for the gop? this is "mtp daily" and it
starts right now. ♪ >> good evening from washington. lots to do tonight and we'll get to all of it in just a moment. but first, i want to show you some live pictures of a local political story that's getting a lot of national attention. it's of course rahm emanuel versus frankly the city of chicago. protesters are marching through downtown chicago right now along what's known as the magnificent mile. calling for mayor rahm emanuel's resignation in the wake of multiple police-involved fatal shootings. our correspondent on the ground estimates there are between 200 and 300 peaceful demonstrators right now. we'll keep an eye on this throughout the hour and show you what mayor emanuel said today that actually sparked today's protest. let me turn back to national politics, and of course the topic on our minds constantly these days, the republican presidential ra